after election day
Nov. 3rd, 2004 07:24 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ayashiI wrote this between Violence in American Culture and 3D modeling, but livejournal was being slow and wouldn't let me post it.
As a disclaimer, none of my "you"s are pointed at anyone I know here on livejournal, because overwhelmingly you are not the people I am talking about. This includes those who voted for Bush or Kerry, since that is not my main issue here...
Had an interesting and depressing talk today in Violence in American Culture. Perez Ventura is a very intelligent man. We talked for almost an hour about the election, the votes, and the issues surrounding the election. Why we are worried for the next four years (republicans dominating everything, supreme court going to lose some more liberal judges which will be replaced). I am, I think, the most upset that the main issue when people were polled that they thought of for the elections was morals. Morals above jobs, above the war, above education.
How is it more important to you that a woman not be allowed to choose to have her child or not, than the fact that if you lose the job you're holding you probably won't be able to find another one? The lack of jobs has affected my family very strongly, which is one reason why I feel so strongly about it. My dad lost his job at Crane and Co. a few months before September 11th. After September 11th he had NO hope of finding another one, especially considering he is over 50 and no one wants to hire a guy his age no matter how much experience he has. But the lack of jobs was one of the worst things to affect him, which is why he didn't even start getting PAID until recently.
We talked a lot about religion. In my dean's book class earlier in the morning, Dan said his mentor here at UMass has a friend in Ohio, who had gone to church. The priest told them, "If you do not vote for Bush, you will go to Hell. Your children will go to Hell." A country where religion has such a strong hold on the decisions of the people, because they want this religion forced upon others, is sick. Deanna in Violence mentioned a friend of hers is majoring in Forestry with a concentration in Conservation. She voted for Bush because of the issue of abortion. How is the matter of CHOICE of having an abortion more important than her future after college of finding and maintaining that job?
More than Bush winning, I can't believe what America thinks are important issues. Abortion? Gay marriage? These things have NOTHING to do with the average person. If you don't like abortion, don't have one. Two men or two women getting married to each other is also none of your business! People are so concerned about limiting each other rather than making the world better for everyone. One person campaigning for Kerry was calling houses, and one old lady said that she wasn't going to vote for a man that was going to make everyone have abortions. No one is MAKING it happen. The issue is not that you have to do it or have to not do it, the issue is whether you should have a choice. Then people thinking (as another classmate mentioned) that Kerry was going to instantly pull troops out of Iraq? That's simply not possible! To do that would be a horrible mistake in a million and one ways. (He also NEVER said he would do that...) Just because maybe that war would not be taking place if not for Bush, that doesn't mean the troops would be pulled out. They can't now, it's gone too far. It would be finished up.
This is all besides the fact that a war on terror can never be won. The war on terror is like the war on drugs - completely futile. You cannot defeat something like terror or drugs. It springs up everywhere and anywhere. Especially terrorism? To fully destory terrorism or thoughts of it, everyone would have to think the same about everything. There is always one person who is someday going to go so far as to attack. The "terrorists" are one group now and have been given a face, but even if they were all wiped out, the war would not be won. A terrorist is not any one person or any group of people, it isn't something that ends when those people die. A war on something like terror, when "over", will only be looked upon as failure. If not one group, it'll be another group commiting acts of terror next. Maybe not in America, but somewhere else.
Seeing the two lonely strips of blue on opposite ends of the country was very discouraging for me. Not only the president, but so many other things, like what a large republican majority means, and in the supreme court. this may not affect everyone's lives that is upset about this election right now. maybe none of us will feel any repercussions of this election for the next four years, but i feel like more people are angry about this president than others that i may be able to remember. another topic brought up in Violence was, how can they even THINK about impeaching Clinton who lied about his love life, when there is our president now who got us into a war (over oil), claiming that mysterious weapons of mass destruction existed which there were no proof of?
I'm just pretty pissed off over much of American citizens really messed up priorities. It is sick that enough people voted to outlaw gay marriage in 11 states. Why do they CARE? why should anyone care? gay men and women deserve those rights, as human beings, the same as everyone else. everyone knows there is not a true separation of church and state, but it still makes me furious that there blatantly is a huge connection rather than a separation.
in any case, does anyone know what was voted for the two questions on the ballots? (the first being that the patroit act is not okay, the second being that if both parents are able that they should be able to both see a child after separation)
As a disclaimer, none of my "you"s are pointed at anyone I know here on livejournal, because overwhelmingly you are not the people I am talking about. This includes those who voted for Bush or Kerry, since that is not my main issue here...
Had an interesting and depressing talk today in Violence in American Culture. Perez Ventura is a very intelligent man. We talked for almost an hour about the election, the votes, and the issues surrounding the election. Why we are worried for the next four years (republicans dominating everything, supreme court going to lose some more liberal judges which will be replaced). I am, I think, the most upset that the main issue when people were polled that they thought of for the elections was morals. Morals above jobs, above the war, above education.
How is it more important to you that a woman not be allowed to choose to have her child or not, than the fact that if you lose the job you're holding you probably won't be able to find another one? The lack of jobs has affected my family very strongly, which is one reason why I feel so strongly about it. My dad lost his job at Crane and Co. a few months before September 11th. After September 11th he had NO hope of finding another one, especially considering he is over 50 and no one wants to hire a guy his age no matter how much experience he has. But the lack of jobs was one of the worst things to affect him, which is why he didn't even start getting PAID until recently.
We talked a lot about religion. In my dean's book class earlier in the morning, Dan said his mentor here at UMass has a friend in Ohio, who had gone to church. The priest told them, "If you do not vote for Bush, you will go to Hell. Your children will go to Hell." A country where religion has such a strong hold on the decisions of the people, because they want this religion forced upon others, is sick. Deanna in Violence mentioned a friend of hers is majoring in Forestry with a concentration in Conservation. She voted for Bush because of the issue of abortion. How is the matter of CHOICE of having an abortion more important than her future after college of finding and maintaining that job?
More than Bush winning, I can't believe what America thinks are important issues. Abortion? Gay marriage? These things have NOTHING to do with the average person. If you don't like abortion, don't have one. Two men or two women getting married to each other is also none of your business! People are so concerned about limiting each other rather than making the world better for everyone. One person campaigning for Kerry was calling houses, and one old lady said that she wasn't going to vote for a man that was going to make everyone have abortions. No one is MAKING it happen. The issue is not that you have to do it or have to not do it, the issue is whether you should have a choice. Then people thinking (as another classmate mentioned) that Kerry was going to instantly pull troops out of Iraq? That's simply not possible! To do that would be a horrible mistake in a million and one ways. (He also NEVER said he would do that...) Just because maybe that war would not be taking place if not for Bush, that doesn't mean the troops would be pulled out. They can't now, it's gone too far. It would be finished up.
This is all besides the fact that a war on terror can never be won. The war on terror is like the war on drugs - completely futile. You cannot defeat something like terror or drugs. It springs up everywhere and anywhere. Especially terrorism? To fully destory terrorism or thoughts of it, everyone would have to think the same about everything. There is always one person who is someday going to go so far as to attack. The "terrorists" are one group now and have been given a face, but even if they were all wiped out, the war would not be won. A terrorist is not any one person or any group of people, it isn't something that ends when those people die. A war on something like terror, when "over", will only be looked upon as failure. If not one group, it'll be another group commiting acts of terror next. Maybe not in America, but somewhere else.
Seeing the two lonely strips of blue on opposite ends of the country was very discouraging for me. Not only the president, but so many other things, like what a large republican majority means, and in the supreme court. this may not affect everyone's lives that is upset about this election right now. maybe none of us will feel any repercussions of this election for the next four years, but i feel like more people are angry about this president than others that i may be able to remember. another topic brought up in Violence was, how can they even THINK about impeaching Clinton who lied about his love life, when there is our president now who got us into a war (over oil), claiming that mysterious weapons of mass destruction existed which there were no proof of?
I'm just pretty pissed off over much of American citizens really messed up priorities. It is sick that enough people voted to outlaw gay marriage in 11 states. Why do they CARE? why should anyone care? gay men and women deserve those rights, as human beings, the same as everyone else. everyone knows there is not a true separation of church and state, but it still makes me furious that there blatantly is a huge connection rather than a separation.
in any case, does anyone know what was voted for the two questions on the ballots? (the first being that the patroit act is not okay, the second being that if both parents are able that they should be able to both see a child after separation)
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no subject
Date: 2004-11-04 12:40 am (UTC)Republicans know how to run a campaign...get people out there based on hate(anti-gay, anti-muslim/terrorist 'threats', etc). Its sad that it was effective.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-04 12:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-04 01:46 am (UTC)I also am sickened that people voted for morality more than anything else, but even then... They don't mean morality. By 'morality' they mean sexuality.
How is it moral to lie and decieve to millions of people whom you are supposed to be serving? To cheat your own citizens out of their money and lives to fight for something not even real? To kill thousands of innocent people? (As long as they're brown and non-Christian (heathen), god approves this message?)
A girl gets pregnant and for whatever reason (her own choice or for her health), and that's evil, too.
Two gay people love each other and want the same rights as straight people? That's also evil. Doesn't matter if they've been loyal to each other for 50 years. It's more evil than two heterosexual people marrying and divorcing a dozen times for anything but love.
People aren't divided over morality... I think most people in the population would agree it's WRONG to kill or steal regardless of their party affiliation... But we are divided because of views on sexuality.
And this blinds people to not seeing REAL issues at hand here... You brought of the job thing, and that's a VERY important issue... Bush says he's also created jobs, but how many are for lower wages than the ones we lost? I mean, gaining 100,000 new jobs because Wal-Marts dominate the nation isn't something to boast about... If they can, they will pay their employees minimum wage with NO benefits.
We tried to pass a measure in California this election to make them (big businesses with 50 employees or more) HAVE to give health benefits and care to their employees because if they don't we Californian taxpayers end up paying for it (And it costs the state millions)...
Unfortunately, it didn't pass because opposition made scare tactic ads that said the state would be thrown into chaos by a state run health care system that would take away any health benefits you have right now (which is completely untrue.) It also said it would be bad for business and scare them away (Yeah, I'm soooo sure Wal-Marts make so little profit on their everything made in cheap China labor crap that they'll all close in California and never open a new one.)
This country will go straight down the shitter if we turn so religiously fanatical that it controls our government.. and with Republicans dominating every branch in the system, there is a lot at stake here...
It means we won't be importing drugs from Canada (thus, price gauging from pharmaceutical companies), people won't have health care, it means the environment will continue to go to crap, new health classes will teach only abstinence if they want public funding (and there was a Texas health book the state was considering to use that says 'getting plenty of rest' will stop you from getting STDs... WTF???), the deficit will go so high they'll have to start making up numbers (what's after trillion? quadrillion? then quintillion?) and the list goes on and on...
But it isn't morality... it's sexuality that polarizes the nation.
And I still can't get over that Bush claims God is on his side... but how worse it is that so many people believe it's true. According to Osama, God's on his side, too... It's just inviting ignorance and irrationality. Bush can now justify anything he wants because 'God told him to' or some other crap.
If he made it law that everyone has to wear chicken hats because God said so, I bet there would be so many crazy religious people that at least 1/3 of our nation would all wear the chicken hats without a question ever hitting their mind.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-04 01:50 am (UTC)Do you mind if I link to it in my livejournal?
no subject
Date: 2004-11-04 04:10 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-04 04:49 am (UTC)I thought everyone knew that?
>,<
If not being accepted because it's "not right" it should be accepted because it'll lower the fucking population!
no subject
Date: 2004-11-04 03:18 pm (UTC)thomas giroir
no subject
Date: 2004-11-04 03:23 pm (UTC)I think that lack of restriction of rights in the Constitution ought to say something about how outside of normality the ban on homosexual marriage will be.
Basically, what this says is that the American people don't care what happens, as long as we fight terrorism and keep the undesirables from getting out of hand. We don't care about our rights, who we go to war with for what reason, or who we make enemies (and friends) with.
Now that the Republicans control the house, senate, supreme court and presidency, we're looking at a single vision for our country.
PS. Take a look at this guy. Don't worry, he lost to the incumbent democrat.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/8/6/130646.shtml
no subject
Date: 2004-11-04 04:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-06 04:27 am (UTC)I think morals, generally speaking, are a pillar of society and more important than the practical aspects of jobs, war and education. I agree with you about gay marriage, but abortion is not so trivial because it involves the killing of a human life. While I disagree with the people who are staunchly "pro-life", I think their concern is valid. That takes me to the second point where I disagree with you, which is when you say that the priorities of much of the American citizens are messed up. I don't think that is a constructive way of putting it, because "they" certainly think the same about you, and if both sides have that mentality they will never be able to dialog. Half of the country voted for Bush. Many of those people are smart, many are extremely intelligent, some of them are brilliant. If you have any friends who voted for Bush, and that you respect and consider intelligent, maybe you should talk to them, without any prejudice, and understand their reasons.
The fact that a war can not be won does not mean it is futile. I believe the war on terror is very much necessary. Everyone doesn't have to think the same about everything, for terrorism to end, as long as people don't turn to violence to reach their goals. You would be hard pressed to justify the statement that there will always be someone who is going so far as to attack, someday, and even if you could, that still wouldn't mean the war on terror is futile, when it can save lives.
Also, do you know more than you wrote here, about that girl majoring in Forestry? Maybe she thinks Kerry and Bush were even and the abortion issue made her choose Bush. Did she say that she would have more job opportunities with Kerry, but voted for Bush only for the abortion issue? Even then, you would have to respect her opinion. Some people take abortion very seriously, either way, just as others worry about environment, the war, or any other issue. If one compares abortion to murder, as some people do, it is natural to make it a vital issue.